I think that is the crux of it. None of this ought to be happening under god, but it is. And I do think very many feel angry about it, or at least... deceived? As though when we came here we were asked to believe one thing, that we had come to a place where we'd be given a second chance if we worked at it, but...
That was already a tall order to believe in, and the rug was pulled out from under us right away.
I mean that at least for me... I came here quite guarded, unlikely to put my trust in this particular god or these angels. Being told I'd died and had come to heaven was itself a difficult thing to believe, considering I was bound to go to Lady Shar's domain upon my death. And then on top of that, to be told this would be a friendly little experiment where we would have the chance to better ourselves and return to life... It's the sort of offer that seems too good to be true, particularly given the life I've led and where I have placed my faith.
I don't think I was alone in both feeling that way, but also in, despite my lack of trust, trying to believe in the offer. So when it immediately turned to violence and death and temptations to kill one another, it felt a little like... well, of course it wasn't actually going to be anything nice. It's the sort of thing that makes you feel like a fool for trying to believe at all.
I know that isn't what God intended, but I suspect it is the crux of why many of us find it hard to trust.
[ they're listening a little closer... and okay, yes, that makes more sense. ]
It doesn't change that it happened whether it was God's fault or not. Yeah... yeah, I get that. The chain of events that started off feels more like a punishment for getting your hopes up, and the fact it's gone on this long hasn't helped. [ ...which... is frustrating. ]
It'll be God's mess to clean up, right? It makes you wonder if they'll actually figure something out.
Exactly. I think I said something similar to the angels early on - not all of us are the sort of people inclined to blindly trust just because someone's words are kind. I doubt most of us would be here if we were.
[there's sort of a running theme of people here who have been beaten down into the dirt a lot of times and learned a specific way of being.]
Words are words, but we need to see proof of actual efforts being made to put things right before we'll be willing to extend trust.
And even then some proofs are worth more than others. [ just comes out to say this. ] ... what do you think would even count at this point? Considering how far this has gone to the wayside.
I honestly don't know. I understand that they intend to give the lost souls a chance too, and that they intend to allow another attempt for those who didn't succeed under these conditions.
I can't really speak for anyone else, whether that will be enough. There's a part of me that still chafes at the idea of judgment. If I changed for the better, it wasn't for the sake of being assessed. There were just a great many people who cared enough about what I was telling them to insist on something different. And I think many of us proved maybe there was never anything particularly wrong with us, given how many people responded to a situation this brutal by showing a lot of fortitude and kindness.
[but also there are some people here whose asses she truly can't stand so she's not exactly going to argue that is true for everyone.]
[ another sip of their coffee, and a pensive silence.
why are you even asking? it's not like you can change anything...
but it makes sense, what she's saying. and so there's a short nod. ]
... you might be one of the only people who actually understand the project then. [ just. quietly said. ] It was never about changing for God. It was about changing for yourselves, to recognize you have potential to be better, and that the things "wrong" about you actually aren't wrong. They're just... changed because of outside factors. The only thing God is doing here is watching, and deciding if a second chance would allow further progress. People shouldn't be trying to change just to be assessed. It's the same way you can't force a person to change at all.
And it's probably why the judgment's happening in the first place.
[ because yeah, they agree some of you truly have not changed, or have changed for the worst, and it would be disastrous to actually revive them or let them stay in a place that's meant to be peaceful. ]
Unfortunately, they have. [ which is frustrating. ] ... it won't be held against you. The roughest parts, I mean. Not that it changes that it happened but...
[ after a moment they just seem to give up. ]
Never mind. I feel like you get what I'm trying to say, at least.
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That was already a tall order to believe in, and the rug was pulled out from under us right away.
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[she thinks about how to explain it better.]
I mean that at least for me... I came here quite guarded, unlikely to put my trust in this particular god or these angels. Being told I'd died and had come to heaven was itself a difficult thing to believe, considering I was bound to go to Lady Shar's domain upon my death. And then on top of that, to be told this would be a friendly little experiment where we would have the chance to better ourselves and return to life... It's the sort of offer that seems too good to be true, particularly given the life I've led and where I have placed my faith.
I don't think I was alone in both feeling that way, but also in, despite my lack of trust, trying to believe in the offer. So when it immediately turned to violence and death and temptations to kill one another, it felt a little like... well, of course it wasn't actually going to be anything nice. It's the sort of thing that makes you feel like a fool for trying to believe at all.
I know that isn't what God intended, but I suspect it is the crux of why many of us find it hard to trust.
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It doesn't change that it happened whether it was God's fault or not. Yeah... yeah, I get that. The chain of events that started off feels more like a punishment for getting your hopes up, and the fact it's gone on this long hasn't helped. [ ...which... is frustrating. ]
It'll be God's mess to clean up, right? It makes you wonder if they'll actually figure something out.
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[there's sort of a running theme of people here who have been beaten down into the dirt a lot of times and learned a specific way of being.]
Words are words, but we need to see proof of actual efforts being made to put things right before we'll be willing to extend trust.
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I can't really speak for anyone else, whether that will be enough. There's a part of me that still chafes at the idea of judgment. If I changed for the better, it wasn't for the sake of being assessed. There were just a great many people who cared enough about what I was telling them to insist on something different. And I think many of us proved maybe there was never anything particularly wrong with us, given how many people responded to a situation this brutal by showing a lot of fortitude and kindness.
[but also there are some people here whose asses she truly can't stand so she's not exactly going to argue that is true for everyone.]
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why are you even asking? it's not like you can change anything...
but it makes sense, what she's saying. and so there's a short nod. ]
... you might be one of the only people who actually understand the project then. [ just. quietly said. ] It was never about changing for God. It was about changing for yourselves, to recognize you have potential to be better, and that the things "wrong" about you actually aren't wrong. They're just... changed because of outside factors. The only thing God is doing here is watching, and deciding if a second chance would allow further progress. People shouldn't be trying to change just to be assessed. It's the same way you can't force a person to change at all.
And it's probably why the judgment's happening in the first place.
[ because yeah, they agree some of you truly have not changed, or have changed for the worst, and it would be disastrous to actually revive them or let them stay in a place that's meant to be peaceful. ]
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Unfortunately, these circumstances are now also driving us to malice and madness.
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[ after a moment they just seem to give up. ]
Never mind. I feel like you get what I'm trying to say, at least.
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Let me know if you think of any other questions, okay? [ otherwise I think this thread is good as we run straight into w7 ]